High Flying Ladies
inspiring and celebrating impact and success
I receive a lot of emails with questions on careers, how to get into consulting or banking, on advice about choosing a degree, doing an MBA or simply finding the right career. I am always happy to share advice, but am thinking it might be even better to publish advice openly here so that more people can benefit from it.
If you want advice on choosing a degree, a university or a career, on finding the right job or anything else that is somewhat relevant to this website, please leave a comment below and I will answer it here as soon as I can. I look forward to answering your questions!
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Hey! I’m a junior in college about to start a sales and trading internship. I’m relatively inexperienced in this area and I was wondering if you had any advice about how I could prepare. Obviously reading the WSJ is a must, but generally, how can I use the time I have left to make sure I sound competent this summer? Thanks!
Posted by kal | April 5, 2012, 10:37 PMHi Kristina! Congratulations on landing the sales and trading internship, well done!! It is so competitive at the moment it is great you were able to land one!! And it is a good idea to prepare in advance to have a better idea of what people talk about. WSJ is a good start but very generic, it will be helpful to read a few more market relevant publications to build up more technical knowledge. I highly recommend the books “Inventing Money” and “Reminiscences of a Stock Market Operator” to get started (I have links on the Hedge Fund reading list). Also try to get a finance text book from your library to know basics of financial instruments, such as futures, forward contracts, bonds, swaps, call and put options etc., it is really helpful to have a general idea how they work and what inputs are used for their pricing. You don’t need to know formulae or anything but just be familiar with the vocabulary. Apart from that, don’t worry too much, just be eager to learn and try to get to know as many people as possible. Usually being interested and personable and having a good attitude is the most important factor for landing a full-time job offer. Good luck! Let me know if you have any further questions!
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| April 7, 2012, 9:25 PM
I am on the fence about business school. If my ultimate goal is to be a hedge fund manager at a small private company (possibly my own start-up), I’m debating between:
-going to a business school now
-breaking into the industry directly
-breaking into the industry now, but with the plan to go to business school in a few years
Originally, after an MBA, I planned to do management consulting or a management rotational program at a large company. Now, I’m increasingly drawn to private wealth management and the value-investing philosophy because it fits closely with my personality.
I know breaking into the industry directly would be difficult, since I’ve been out of college for several years (working as a teacher, current age 25), and have little quant experience beyond a few Calculus and Statistics courses in college. I have acceptance a (very good, but not top tier) business school in the U.S. starting next fall, but even with their substantial scholarship, I’m not sure it’s worth the cost of depleting my savings and two years I could be earning experience in industry.
Posted by Accepted&Hesitant | April 12, 2012, 5:28 AMHi there Accepted&Hesitant, it is a very crucial decision and it is good you are taking your time to make an informed decision! Here’s a few questions I would consider if I were in your shoes:
as you say your options are -going to a business school now or -breaking into the industry directly (in my opinion the third option you list doesn’t make sense). Now ask yourself the following question:
– can you break into the industry now? which job/role in what kind of company can you realistically get?
– are there any companies/jobs you have identified as attractive – can you try contacting them directly and get a feel for your chances of getting hired directly?
– have you talked to a lot of people in the investment field to give you certainty that this is the job you are aiming for?
– why don’t you want to be a teacher anymore?
and regarding your business school offer:
- how good is the finance curriculum in that school?
- how good are the links to firms you would like to work for?
- how successful are the schools graduates in securing jobs in the companies you would like to work for?
- is it located in a town with many investment management firms for networking purposes?
- will the alumni network be able to facilitate job search?
I would choose breaking into a career directly if you can get an attractive post in a growing company with your current background. The benefits of a business school degree would be if it could increase your skills and network to such an extent that you could land a much better job with the degree and that would compensate you for the 1-2 years of career break and loss of earnings. So I recommend you get a feel for what kind of job you could find without business school to make sure your option 1 is actually a feasible option, and then do a lot of due diligence on that business school in terms of placements, current students and alumni network. Hope that helps! let me know if you have any other questions!
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| April 12, 2012, 8:47 PM
Hi Anke,
Could you explain what you like about trading? And how your life around it compares to the work life balance at McK? I mean, I assume that you barely have to travel nowadays. But I guess this wasn’t the only draw-back at McK?
Thanks a lot for your reply.
Posted by Curious... | June 24, 2012, 8:27 AMHi there! absolutely I can. Work life balance is much better in trading. I work from 7am to 5pm or 5.30pm roughly. So I have to get up earlier than I used to but I get home much much earlier. It is also much more predictable. Markets are closed on weekends so I never need to work on weekends or evenings. There is a tiny amount of travel but actually very enjoyable – sometimes it could be to travel to a region that I trade to meet with the Central Bank, Finance Ministry or with local banks and clients. Sometimes it could be travelling to New York or Boston to meet buyside clients. But it is rare. I think very senior people travel more but it is very manageable and predictable. I also like that it is very transparent – it’s very clear what your job is and how to fulfil your responsibility, and it is easy to measure if you are successful or not. Of course the downside is that it is in the long-term less challenging and less well-rounded than consulting, so intellectually and personally I think you grow more in consulting. Consulting is great for your development and learning, but it comes at a cost of your personal sacrifice. Hope that helps!
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| June 26, 2012, 9:34 PM
Thank you very much for replying to my previous question.
I have one more follow-up. From what you heard from your LBS co-horts and maybe your McK alum connections, is the idea that consultants based in the London Office don’t have to travel as much?
Thanks again,
C
Posted by Curious... | June 27, 2012, 5:06 PMHi C,
yes this is definitely the case, they would travel less in places like London, Paris etc. – basically in all rather centralised economies, there’s going to be less travel, whereas in places like the US or Germany, there’s going to be more travel. Different local offices also vary in terms of working culture, so you need to take all that into account.
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| June 28, 2012, 9:46 PM
Hi hi!
I found your blog by accident and I really enjoyed reading all your posts!
I am currently hesitating over career choices: joining a very small hedge fund with AUM 30million or pursue a master in a top school with a high probability to join an ib for trading or structurer.
I think I can have more responsiblity if I accept the offer in the hedge fund, with a higher upside potential to grow. But the drawbacks are very clear as well: pay is not as high as in ib, and the brand name, and also the future exit opportunities I suppose. What do you think?
I am really looking forward to your advise! Thanks
Posted by Olivia | July 3, 2012, 9:18 PMHi Olivia – thanks for posting here! First of all, your choices both sound great! Now let’s go into the details. It’s really hard to know what’s better without knowing more about the hedge fund and its founder – but here are a few thoughts and questions you may want to ask them. Can you tell me where you are located – is this the US? The reason I’m asking is that $30m under management is extremely small. Generally one says that a hedge fund is really only viable above $100m AuM, and to be able to pay junior staff competitively I would say at least a couple of hundred more are required – because otherwise mgmt fees only barely cover office rent and the founder’s salary, so your earnings potential is very limited. In terms of learning, it can be a great opportunity but that also depends entirely on the founder and the person you will be working with – are they going to use you for the grunt work or will you be able to learn a lot from them? I don’t want to discourage you from working with this fund, but make sure the founder can teach you a lot and give you lots of opportunities.
I would think that if you pursue a master at a top school, you should be able to find some part-time work at a hedge fund on the side to learn, and you will have more opportunities open to you. I might prefer going for the top degree unless you have a strong feeling that this hedge fund and its founder have great potential going forward. Don’t just go with a hedge fund because it’s called a hedge fund – the name itself sounds great but doesn’t mean much. Hope that helps, do let me know if you have further questions!
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| July 3, 2012, 10:01 PM
Hi Anke
I have been to various recruiting events for banks in EU and had been curious about the recruiting rate of women and their subsequent attrition rate after say a few years. I’m finding when I ask questions about how many female employees there are in a particular division, people get very sensitive about it and become quite defensive. I really wanted to do IB but the responses I’m getting are quite disheartening, not just in terms of numbers but the general defensiveness.
I’m scared that asking questions like this will turn recruiters away from me, but at the same time I don’t want to go to a firm where women are not valued or there is something telling about culture. How should I be approaching these issues?
Posted by Jessica | July 24, 2012, 6:36 PMHI Jessica,
this is such a good question! I think the reaction of representatives at your events might depend very much on whom you ask. I think female bankers would not be surprised by your question at all and give you a sincere answer. HR reps and male bankers might be more defensive – HR because they don’t want to say the wrong thing and male bankers because they work very hard and tend to get very annoyed when anyone implies they might be privileged compared to female colleagues (some of them think it’s the opposite). I suggest you get a feel for what you’re looking for by different means – ask female bankers who work at those companies in a more private setting or try to gather the information informally from alumni at your school or internet research. Also you can just observe how many female bankers there are at the events and gauge some form of a percentage there, although nowadays banks usually make sure there is a certain numbers of female employees at such events even if that’s not representative. But at least that shows management is aware of the problem and making an effort.
In general, expect the share of females in IBD to be around 20-30% at the entry level and then drop down to 10% or so at the senior level. Numbers can be lower in continental Europe, especially in Germany or Switzerland, and potentially higher in Spain. For London, I would say 20-30% is a good estimate, for New York probably 25-30% at the entry level. From my perspective the share of females is definitely enough for you not to feel like an exception, female bankers are quite common nowadays in most financial centres.
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| July 24, 2012, 9:36 PM
Hi Anke,
I’m an avid follower of your website, thank you for putting together such a interesting and inspirational site!
I’ve got a very specific question for you, I’m trying to prepare for a FICC trading interview at an IB. I have been told the interviewer is a FX forward trader and the interview style is “hostile” and technical. I’m not particularly worried about the straight forward “hostile” style of the interview, as I have had some interesting experience with IB interviews in the past. However it is the technical part I am worried about, because I have a non-finance undergraduate degree and a FICC internship. So they expect me to know a lot about different financial products, however, I always feel insecure going into interviews because I feel I lack theoretical financial knowledge.
What kind of technical questions should I expect and how best to prepare?
Best regards,
J
Posted by J | August 4, 2012, 3:15 PMHi Anke
I’ve just stumbled upon this blog and its great!
I’m about to complete a PhD in Physics at Oxford and am presently considering my career options. My strong points are definitely my mathematical and programming skills and I’ve been looking at internships in Quantitative Research at the big banks. I’ve been reading up on the subject for quite a while, but judging from your Sales and Trading interview questions, I might not fair well when competing against MBAs. Which leads me to my question…how much will you be expected to know if you come from a completely different background? Are interviewers sensitive to the fact that self-learners might not be able to cover every aspect of the financial world?
My reason for choosing quantitative research is because it is most suited to my skill set and, on paper, I meet all of the criteria. I’m slightly worried that I will be surrounded by unsociable people who spend all of their time developing abstract algorithms which are little used by the rest of the company. How much interaction do you have with quantitative researchers in the trading team? I know that ‘sales and trading’ often has its own research team and I wonder if I would be better off in this role.
Many thanks, N
Posted by Nhala | September 16, 2012, 10:01 AMHi Nhala,
first of all – what other careers are you considering? I think if you are smart enough to do a PhD in Physics at Oxford doing quant research at a bank could be a bit boring or a waste of your intelligence really. You need to be quanty for it but not amazingly smart. But of course it might make sense to do an internship to have a look. The process for PhDs is generally separate from the normal associate programmes, and also the hiring for quants is separate for sales & trading hiring, so they would definitely take your background into account. You would likely have quants or quanty traders with Physics/Engineering masters or PhDs interview you so they would do brainteasers and stuff like that to gauge your intellectual agility.
Happy to answer further questions via email, just drop me a line!
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| September 18, 2012, 9:19 PM
Hi there, I am thinking of applying to LBS and would love to ask you of your experiences – e.g., how hard is it to find summer internships, what are your thoughts on the global experience program, the exchange, and are there anything that you would do differently to get the full enjoyment of being at LBS?
Posted by Frank | November 2, 2012, 11:18 PMHey there!
I found your website mostly by mistake. I am currently applying for internships at ¨big banks¨, you know what I mean. I used to apply for their graduate programmes and despite great applications I was constantly rejected. I was very nicely told that they cover most of their graduate positions with their interns, so I change my strategy!
I don´t have any specific question for you so far, I am writing to you just because I want to tell you how amazing is this website! It is extremely helpful not only for the information it provides but its power to encourage women to apply for amazing jobs!
thank you!
I have added your website in ´my favourites´!
best
oana
Posted by Oana | November 4, 2012, 7:06 PMHi Anke,
I’ve really enjoyed reading this blog – I’m so glad you created it.
Here is the thing – having been offered jobs in both sales and trading, I took a job in sales, but am wondering if it is possible to move into trading? I accepted an offer in a sales role as that is what most people I knew in the industry at that time told me I would be best suited. (By way of background, I do not come from a financial family and worked all through my undergraduate degree to secure a job in an IB. So I depended a lot on the advice of colleagues.)
My experience in the sales role has been mixed, as I know that I can be effective, however sometimes I struggle with the feeling that I am little more than a girl being ‘pimped’ out to go to client dinners. It upsets me because I have worked so hard to get to where I am now, and I want to build a career that is built on my intelligence and hard work, not my ability to make small talk or wear fancy outfits.
I really love the markets, and want to take my own risk, but having been in sales for two years now, I worry that making the switch will be 1) very unlikely due to the perception that ‘blonde girls can’t do maths’ and 2) involve me going back to square 1 on the corporate ladder.
I would really appreciate if you would let me know your thoughts on whether you think this is a realistic ambition and what is the best way to go about achieving it.
Many thanks,
C
Posted by Caroline | November 6, 2012, 11:34 PMHi Anke,
From your previous post, you said that you got to take the mini-MBA course along with other APDs at McKinsey because of your master in international study, is this something that all master students can do or only a certain people can do it?
Thanks
Posted by Ky Le | December 4, 2012, 12:36 AMHI Ky Le, I think it is offered to all masters students, rom my experience.
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| December 5, 2012, 2:47 PM